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 .Kiko.
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    Sr. Xisto escreveu: Só lendo os livros mesmo pra entender?

    Dizem que tem muita coisa interessante nos livros.

    Mas creio que dê para entender com a série e o filme.

     .Kiko.
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    Imagem


    Os fãs de TP são mais obcecados do que os de Lost. :lol:
    Gentleman  isso

     DAC
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    Vi num lugar falando que se assistir os 2 episódios em sincronia tem muita coisa que faz sentido :rimbuk2:
    No aguardo do @Balder Himself tentar
    Gentleman  isso

     Gentleman
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    DAC escreveu: Vi num lugar falando que se assistir os 2 episódios em sincronia tem muita coisa que faz sentido :rimbuk2:
    No aguardo do @Balder Himself tentar
    eta pora eta krl :ohnoes:

     DAC
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    Uma das coisas que eu li é que a Diane some no episódio 18 no mesmo momento que a Naido se transforma nela no 17. Tinha outras coisas que pareciam se encaixar mas não lembro de cabeça agora

     Jordanes do Mar Jônico
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    could Ruby have been Audrey? We know that there were parallels with what happened to Diane and Audrey after the original series. If Mr. C raped them both then perhaps he also took them both to the "old gas station" and turned them into Asian women. The actress that played Ruby also plays the character named Ruby on Steven Universe. The SU Ruby is in an interesting situation being that she usually exists inside of an amalgam being alongside a character named Sapphire. My theory is basically that both Audrey and whatever Charlie is are merged inside of TP Ruby. Perhaps Charlie being the one to make phone calls means that he is the one that controls the body and speaks to others. The way I imagine it going is that the scene when Audrey "wakes up" is the internal version of the scene where Ruby starts screaming.
     
    Just a thought.

     Jordanes do Mar Jônico
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    “The Horse Is The White Of The Eyes. And Dark Within.”
    A contribution by Lynchland faithful member John R. Fultz :
    “I used to wonder at the significance of the "white horse" in the first two season of TWIN PEAKS, but after the third season I now understand what should have been so obvious: The white horse is a "nightmare"--but it's also the Red Room form taken by the entity of cosmic evil known as "Judy". This became even more obvious with the third season's insistence that "We live inside a dream." Also, the Woodsman's dreadful incantation refers to the power of the white horse (Judy): "This is the water, and this is the well." The well of worlds--where mankind dwells--the universal energy ("fire") that creates all universes (dreams). "Drink full, and descend." These spirits born of Judy descend from the void into the human world after the nuclear explosion in ep 8--they manifest as electrical beings inside this well of worlds--we are all of us electrical beings. "The horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within." The horse is one of Judy's manifestations--Judy ("the mother of abominations") has vomited them into the world to spread evil and chaos. Now it makes more sense why Sarah Palmer would often see the white horse (a manifestation of Judy) during many of BOB's bloody rampages while he wore Leland's body. At the time we thought she was simply drugged by Leland--("white horse" as a drug reference)--but Sarah had something way worse than drugs inside her the whole time. "I'll eat you." Laura never had a chance--until Cooper came along. I don't know why it took me so long to associate the white horse of Twin Peaks with the legendary "nightmare" of dream mythology. Yet there it is. When you live inside a dream, nightmares are what you want to avoid.”



    https://scontent.fgru5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=5A19A5A3
    Gentleman  isso

     Jordanes do Mar Jônico
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    Oh boy, I'm having a lot of overlapping thoughts on this. 
    I would never think it was as simple as "it was all a dream" because there are too many things that conflict with that.  For instance, when does he wake up?  When he fades out of the sheriff's station and ends up in the electrical room with Diane and Gordon? When he and Diane drive through the 430 line and end up near Odessa at night in the car?  When he wakes up looking for Diane and finds the note from Linda?  He then proceeds, as planned, to find Laura and return to Twin Peaks?  None of these are like your classic "waking up from a dream" moment.  He doesn't wake up in bed and forget everything, he doesn't wake up wistful and disoriented, he keeps moving forward with purpose.
    So if it's not a dream, what's going on when he fades out?  When he is literally watching himself interact with other characters?   What are our options?  I think we have two very good options.

    This is a huge factor in the world of Twin Peaks now.  Bill Hastings character died because of his fascination with it.  He got too close to the world of the lodges and the woodsmen. The Woodsmen shift through space and dimensions constantly when they move.  The room above the convenience store is in another "density."  The woodsman can travel by electricity.  Dale traveled through electricity and continues to do so (through the socket, through the electrical room with Mike to see Jeffries, through the 430 line to Odessa.)  Jeffries was starting to travel by density shifting and dimensional time travel in FWWM.  Anyway, it's part of the story now.  It's hard to film a concept that abstract and perhaps the best way to do it was the way it was confusingly done in the end.
    It is a vision-  Dreams and visions are not new to the Twin Peaks mythos.  So much of Dale's investigation in the first season was in response to a dream he had, or more accurately a *vision*.  Here is Major Briggs distinguishing between the two in season 2 episode 1:
    "Bobby, may I share something with you? A vision I had in my sleep last night—as distinguished from a dream, which is a mere sorting and cataloguing of the day’s events by the subconscious. This was a vision: fresh and clear as a mountain stream, the mind revealing itself to itself."
    In the original series Dale has visions that lead him to discovering Laura's killer, Major Briggs has visions that let him know that Bobby's life is going to turn around, you could argue that Laura has a vision of Annie and it lets her know what she needs to write in her diary to affect the future. 
    Basically if something feels like a dream in Twin Peaks but it has more significance, it's actually a vision.  A vision is important, it has weight and meaning for the characters and often comes to pass at some point in the future.  Visions don't negate part of the story, they add to it.  The only thing is that, like the density shifting and parallel worlds, it gets a little confusing because it can feel very nonlinear in the timeline. 
    So that's my, uh, brief thoughts on the matter.  Not a dream!

     Jordanes do Mar Jônico
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    In response to: "If it's not a dream the ending is still crap because the entire timeline has possibly been erased as well as perhaps all the characters except Richard, Linda and Carrie."
    If you read The Secret History of Twin Peaks (documents archived in a dossier by "The Archivist" Major Briggs, who as we know, had a nearly omniscient All-Access Pass to every dimension)...there is a "Missing" poster of Laura Palmer but no talk of her murder, which indeed reinforces that she was "unkilled" and shifted/re-incarnated to another timeline, by Judy/Joo-Day. (Has anyone looked into this name yet, historically--both versions? Judy...Judy Garland = Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz....another dream, with dreams within a dream--or our good old buddy Judas...okay, a stretch, LOL ~ but nothing is without multiple meanings and inferences in the Lynch/Frostiverse...) And NO, I don't buy the Dreamer theory in the sense that "It was all a bust/hallucination"--Ta Da! Aka, the wrap it up with a wink and a knee slap, get your TP t-shirt on the way out and tip your bartender theory.
    If you know "the business" and the heinous stigma around it (that mega-cheat-dream "device" is the TV writer graveyard, where they go to die), the brilliant, profound minds of Lynch and TV vet Frost (and this debacle was in his Hill St. Blues writing heyday, and the St. Elsewhere botch was a plague that no one would dare catch--he would *never* touch that St. Elsewhere-esque kryptonite) would dare not touch ("The Art Life," anyone? We are dealing with geniuses here and they are SO intent on weaving complex and multi-layered mystery and webs of infinite novelty, that they are far bigger than such an amateur-night cop-out, and they are the antithesis of doing/what is known in the writing world as "On The Nose.") That "industry knowledge" and awareness and understanding of their artistry alone, as the OP said, is ENOUGH to rest your weary mind, soothe your garmonbozia-soaked soul, ease your tender, red-velvet curtained hearts and potently reassure you that DL/MF would never sodomize the audience like that, with such a cheap trick.
    Why? Because they love and respect their characters too much to do that. Even Lynch once said that the world of TP is almost more real to him than this one, and it never left him, its characters have lived within him ever since, and he and Frost have a deep fondness for them, and thus "The Return"...and evidenced by how long he lets the camera linger on them, for 5 to 10 minutes at a time, where even the most simple, profane moments, like sweeping a floor, become sacred. That's love. The holiness of the present moment, and he invites us into it. Gives us permission to be in it, allow it, and marinate in it; and all of it's paradoxical contradictions, and in doing so, find wholeness. The nature of life as a perceived duality, and that which is beyond it, where those dualities are included, integrated into wholeness. 
    There's so much more here to see, learn, know, grock, and fathom--including the above mentioned themes of time travel, inter dimensional travel and multiple timelines and incarnations, parallel universes and the world (and worlds, and worlds within worlds; dreams within dreams -- including the Waking Dream, like this one we are living) outside of time, the ever-mysterious realm of The Mythic and The Mystical...The Multidimensional Realms of Creation, and the concept that we are indeed multidimensional beings (and that there's only one of us here, LOL), amongst other esoteric concepts, mythologies/cosmologies and philosophies (coincidentally, which Lynch and Frost are extremely well-versed in, as long time meditators and metaphysical adventurers)...but one thing is for certain: they did not wrap up the show with a cheap out, as in "It's all a dream" in the literal sense, meaning it's contrived or "not real," but quite the opposite. It's a dream and not a dream. It's the paradox. A zen koan, if you will. So many dreams and so much waking up: from the cultural trance, from the illusion of separation, to and from and within the dream within the dream. I believe what the OP meant was: "Chill, it wasn't all fake, you weren't duped, it wasn't a massive 3 season hallucination that never existed." It was an AWAKENING for Coop, into the nature of reality. Symbolism, not literal.   
    Just because we don't completely understand the finale yet and haven't put all the puzzle pieces together (which we may never do; DL has said that he likes to create "open circles," in order to create space, so the viewer has "room to dream," in order to keep us thinking and in a state of wonderment...aka Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind! LOL); just because it is still in the Unknown or a mystery, does not mean that it is bad or wrong. In fact, one of the highest mystical teachings in the indigenous traditions is to "Be Okay With Not Knowing."
    Lynch and Frost here are giving us an experience of the "Unknowable," meaning that which cannot ever be known, in the conventional sense--but can be experienced. (The Realm of the Mythic, beyond the mind--the language of the soul that speaks via archetypal energies through images, sounds, light, music, art, etc.) They are giving us super potent doses of the esoteric and the metaphysical, through direct transmission, via this medium, the vehicle of art. (Why do you think we are all so hooked?! LOL. There are deeper, archetypal truths and themes at play here, of which we have barely scratched the surface on these forums.) Our brains might not get it but our souls do, which is why we keep coming back for more. First, we can put it all into a bigger context via this Mystical Umbrella/Big Picture (knowing that we never really may know, LOL, and surrendering to that; which is a teaching in and of itself), then we can roll up our sleeves like the little Sherlock Holmes TP sleuths that we are, and dig, dig, dig! More to come on that front later, as (SO MANY of) the clues pile up.
    I also agree with OP's  theory that The Real Coop is in Vegas and the doppelgänger or tulpa (not the same, more will be revealed as we piece things together)--which he asked to be created--is in the Lodge. Because only one of them can be in there at a time, one must stay and one must return home, as the One Armed Man taught us....and that definitely wasn't the real Coop at the diner. Numerous clues debunked later! In the meantime... 🙂 
    "Row, row row your boat, gently down the stream; merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...."
     
     

     Jordanes do Mar Jônico
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    phpBB [video]

     Lakitus
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    Baixei anteontem os dois primeiros epis

    aí ontem fui inventar de assistir o primeiro antes dos jogos de quarta

    Qual não foi meu susto ao ver que tinha 1h51min de duração :omg3:

     Tigass
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    Lakitus escreveu: Baixei anteontem os dois primeiros epis

    aí ontem fui inventar de assistir o primeiro antes dos jogos de quarta

    Qual não foi meu susto ao ver que tinha 1h51min de duração

    kkk
    São os dois primeiros episódios juntos, todos os episódios tem por volta de 55 minutos

     Jordanes do Mar Jônico
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    It was right in front of us. Mike explained it to our face in what seemed to be a random insert and we didn't see it/
     
    "Trough the darkness of future past"
    -Conviemce store/Lodge, 196?, Richard/Linda, loop?, 
    "The magician longs to see
    -(. . .? . . .Coop?)
    "One chants out between two worlds, (because) Fire Walk With Me "
    . . .Scream at end of Ep 18, . . . BAM!
     
     
     
    Ep 17-18  assuredly  could be, or illustrate the  "Fire Walk With Me" verse.
     
    Now this seems both "obvious" and a stretch, but is it?
     
    Twin Peaks is about interaction the between two worlds. "ours" and the Dugpas and their other species, (not a retelling of the Wizzard of Oz)
     
    So while I hate "theories" and the inspiring & resulting in self induldgent and delusionsal fan fiction they inspire . . . this is not a theory, it's analysis and hypotheses: 
     
    1.  Why would Mike say it so blatently? 
    2.  Future Past (1966?, click moving backward, etc)
    3. Longs to see. . .(Coop brining Laura back? "what year is it" ? )
    4.  Who else would/does "Fire" with with?
     
    "I'll cut you with my death bag, you may THINK I've gone insane, but I promise I will kill AGAIN (futures past)
     
    Why did Bob track down Laura as a girl? How did he know Leyland would be his/their father?
     
    Why did he write Fire Walk With Me, and leave an elaborate crime scene after he killed her, but not Mattie or Teresa?
     
    Why did he start to leave clues under the finger nails after he Mike killed several (number untold), before Teressa?  What he now wanted to spell his name after all that?
     
    And why Teressa? Was it that she would uncover Leyland is cheating on his wife?  Why would Bob care? Like a divorce would stop him from crawling through Laura's window?
     
    Or was it that start all the events up to EP 18? 
     
     "Laura is the one" as Log Lady said, and The Dream Child as TSHTP alluded to . . . That would/could be why she, Teresa and Mattie where different then the others and why Bob wanted(perhaps wants) her dead or alive.
     
    While this seems like college poetry class of where looking to deep is encouraged, in this case it does fit, and makes sense for this seasons finale to walk through and show the Fire Walk With Me verse.

     Jordanes do Mar Jônico
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    existe uma coisa no estudo da existência transcendental, que é o fato de não existe uma única verdade universal, mas sim diversas, que se somam, mas que se vistas sem se deslocar de um ponto de vista, podem parecer contraditórias entre si, ou únicas e isoladas ( não estou falando que toda possibilidade é de fato algo real).

    e ao meu ver, as diversas teorias que encaixam, foram feitas pra liberalmente cada um ter sua interpretação, da maneira que o Lynch gosta, dando espaço para a imaginação deduzir/preencher


    cada vez mais o final e seu encaixe com a série como um todo estão no top 1 de genialidade da minha mente, pqp :emocao: :emocao: :emocao: :emocao: :emocao: :emocao: :emocao:

     Narva Triin
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    n que isso tire completamente a validade dos syncs, mas a produtora disse que não tem cabimento. eu fico com ela

    alias, a melhor teoria que eu li foi uma que o maclachlan retuitou,
    de que a laura foi usada como uma espécie de bomba para destruir a judy, e que dentro desse masterplan aquele universo paralelo foi construido pela white lodge como uma armadilha
    https://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/

     Jordanes do Mar Jônico
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    Narva Triin escreveu: n que isso tire completamente a validade dos syncs, mas a produtora disse que não tem cabimento. eu fico com ela

    alias, a melhor teoria que eu li foi uma que o maclachlan retuitou,
    de que a laura foi usada como uma espécie de bomba para destruir a judy, e que dentro desse masterplan aquele universo paralelo foi construido pela white lodge como uma armadilha
    https://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/

    Não tem uma interpretação correta, Lynch gosta de deixar aberturas com espaço pra varias possibilidades, independente de continuação. até por que tem vários níveis de interpretação.

    não acho que judy tenha sido vencida, mto pelo contrário, a luta entre o bem e o mal é infinita
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